 Kuskomale
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| Joined: 08 Aug 2002 |
| Total Posts: 27 |
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Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 06 Jan 2003 11:18 PM |
http://afl.com.au The AFL's home page has an article regarding the upcoming Wizards Cup and the use of temporary rule changes. Is this something the AFL does every year, or is this something new? Any comment on the rule changes? My comments:
As I said in another forum, making a beyond-50-metre goal worth 9 points will only encourage individual play and more stoppages of play. Basketball went to a three-point goal to spread out the offence; however, with a field the size of footy, what would be the purpose of awarding additional points for long-distance goals?
Changing the rushed behind points from one to three seems an interesting idea ... it would keep the ball in play closer to goal, I suppose.
I wish that those who meddle with the rule changes post the justification for proposing these changes.
I still wish they'd do something about the running clock.
Posted by Duane ... a FAR-north fan of the greatest game on Earth -- Aussie RULES |
Posted by Duane ... the farthest-north Roos fan of the greatest game on Earth -- Aussie RULES |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 07 Jan 2003 02:55 AM |
They've done experimental rule changes in the preseason cup a few times, plus they trialled a whole bunch of things in the lightning cup they held in 1996.
Personally I don't like fiddling with the rules too much, but if they're going to trial things the preseason cup is the place to do it. Three points for a rushed behind could be interesting, it'll certainly change defensive play.
I think the justification is simply to emphasise what are perceived as the crowd pleaser moments and encourage a bit more flair and more attacking play.
But why would they want a plasterer? |
www.worldfootynews.com
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SOSO
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| Joined: 10 Jun 2002 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 08 Jan 2003 11:29 AM |
Increasing the points for a rushed behind seems right but not to three points. 2 points would seem to be more in line. A rushed behind is Footy's equivalent of a "safety" so 2 points would seem to be appropriate.
at the end of the season you'll know the reason we are the premier team |
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Matty D.
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| Joined: 10 Jun 2002 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 08 Jan 2003 04:05 PM |
What would the definition of a rushed behind be? Any ball touched before it goes over the line? Who has to touch it, offensive or defensive team?
We are the Bulldogs,
We are the team. |
We are the Bulldogs,
We are the team. |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 09 Jan 2003 02:04 AM |
I think the AFL should adopt the policy of 'most' international sporting bodies and fix the rules (apart from interpretation) for 4 to 5 years.
As to the rushed behind being awarded 3 point -- it was tried/trialed in the centenery year and was forgotten (or so I thought).
I'm ambivilant on this rule change -- though, I don't really see the need for it.
But you raise an interesting point Matty -- determining what deliberateis, is going to be interesting.
Saints on the run! |
Arghhhhhhhhhh - well maybe 2010 will be the Saints' year |
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SOSO
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| Joined: 10 Jun 2002 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 09 Jan 2003 11:52 AM |
Guess I'm missing something, I thought you guys were talking about when the defending team punches the ball through their own goal in order to prevent the other team from scoring a goal. Whether it was done deliberately or unitentionaly wouldn't make a diference. Same as in American Football, if you get caught in your own end zone, deliberate or not, it's a safety.
I think that would be the better rule change. If you knock the ball through your own goal, deliberate or not, then the other team gets 2 points and possesion of the ball at the center square with a free kick.
at the end of the season you'll know the reason we are the premier team |
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Matty D.
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| Joined: 10 Jun 2002 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 09 Jan 2003 12:28 PM |
There is no doubt that if your the defender and you kick the ball through it's deliberate, if you handball it through or if you tap it off the ground through it's deliberate, but what about the diving attempt to touch it before it goes through for a goal, the attempt to get it out of the square that goes awry, takes a funny bounce, the kick to clear which is smothered. All of them can be seen as an attempt to touch the ball by the defender but could you say it was deliberate to get it over the line as well. There is just some aspects that make it too subjective. I would say, if it is touched before it goes through then it's three points. That's simple and clear enough to make it objective. If the kick goes off line without being touched it stays a one point behind, this penalizes the offensive team for bad aim and the defensive team for not completely stopping the shot or drive for goal.
We are the Bulldogs,
We are the team. |
We are the Bulldogs,
We are the team. |
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SOSO
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| Joined: 10 Jun 2002 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 09 Jan 2003 01:53 PM |
Why not do away with the touch rule completely? I've always tought it was a bit silly anyway. If you kick the ball between the posts and it goes through, touched or not, why not count it as a goal? Secondly why not do away with the "poster" rule? What difference does it make if the ball touches the post as it goes through? In American ball if the kicker bounces the ball off the uprights or the crossbar and it goes through the PAT or FG still count for the same amount of points. Why not in Footy? If you're going to look at rule changes, why not look at some that would have a real effect on the game.
The whole deliberate forced behind rule brings more interprtation into the game as Matty D stated. Doing away with "posters" and "touched" kicks eliminates some "interpretation" from the game. There were several instances last year when "was the ball touched" was a factor in the AFL. These rules would also lessen the "maggots" ability to effect the game. That's almost always a good thing isn't it?
at the end of the season you'll know the reason we are the premier team |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 10 Jan 2003 01:58 AM |
Also -- Will it be a deliberate rushed behind if it goes between the goal and behind posts<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
Soso -- I'm not in favour of eliminating the poster or touched!!! They've been an integral part of what footy is for the last 106 years!
To be honest -- the more I think about it, penalising the defending side for a rushed behind is anathama to the spirit of Aussie Rules.
The only football game on the planet that awards FULL POINTS for a KICK not an off the body, not a header, not a punched through or any other means of having the ball cross the goal line.
Saints on the run! |
Arghhhhhhhhhh - well maybe 2010 will be the Saints' year |
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SOSO
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| Joined: 10 Jun 2002 |
| Total Posts: 115 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 10 Jan 2003 10:31 AM |
Van,
Didn't think you would be. I understand completely and can see your point of view. If you were to tell me that PAT's and FG's shouldn't count because they hit the uprights or the crossbar I'd disagree with you as well.
Rule changes occur much more often in the NFL it seems than the AFL. The NFL today has practically no resemblance to the NFL of 1910 whereas the AFL of today isn't too far from the VFL of 1910. While all of here love footy there are some cultural differences which are inevitable. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
at the end of the season you'll know the reason we are the premier team |
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cos789
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| Joined: 06 Jul 2002 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 11 Jan 2003 03:15 AM |
The scoring from outside the 50m arc :
1.introduces more rules
2.complicates the scoring and the the display of scoring
3.incourages bombing from long distance
4.slows the game for more set shots
Scoring a goal for a ball going through(anyhow}the big posts
1.reduces the number of rules
2.simplifies goal umpiring
3.incourages getting closer to goal and goal scoring
4.incourages the flow on game
5.no need for the safety law as it would be a goal.
changing the the touched post law to make the posts transparent
1.reduces and simplifies the laws and goal umpiring
2.brings it into line with other objects eg umpires who are considered transparent
3.those extra thick pads are no longer a problem
give it to the game |
give it to the game |
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SOSO
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| Joined: 10 Jun 2002 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 13 Jan 2003 10:48 AM |
Those points are all correct, however they also go against tradition, which seems to carry much more weight in the AFL than in the NFL. I'd like to see those changes but I doubt they'll come. Too many purists.
at the end of the season you'll know the reason we are the premier team |
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SethMc
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 13 Jan 2003 12:05 PM |
On the scoring outside the 50m arc, I'm not sure what the AFL are trying to accomplish. In basketball, the NBA was trying to open up the game and prevent teams from going into a defensive shell. The game changed, but for the better.
The rushed behind rule is interesting. If it is tapped through off the ground or in the air by a defender, it is still 1 pt. The defender has to have "control" of ball in order for it to be a 3pt score.
Having a 2nd ball by the goals, so a team could play right away after a behind is a good idea. The full back, or whoever, doesn't have to wait for the goal umpire to finish waving the flag. I guess he would have to wait for the initial signal, but it would be a nice way to speed up the game.
No mark for a backwards kick outside of the attacking 50m arc? What do you guys think? Does making the center square 50m instead of 45m make a big difference?
Seth
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SOSO
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| Joined: 10 Jun 2002 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 13 Jan 2003 02:16 PM |
No mark for a backwards kick only seems to create more of a problem. You'll run into the same problem they had in the Tenessee-Buffalo game back a couple of years ago, was it a lateral or not? Same thing for Footy. You could end up with a good centering kick being discounted because it was deemed "backwards". Good idea that works badly in some situations. Overall the best way to speed up the game is to enforce the 15 second rule on disposals after a mark.
Another good way to speed up the game is to do away with the ball ups after every goal. The defending team gets possesion of the ball after a behind is scored, why not after a goal as well? That would speed up the game and eliminate the congestion in the center of the game anyway. Basketball did away with that rule 50 years ago. Footy should as well. Taking the lumbering sticks off the field would add another speedy player to the mix which would increase the tempo of the game.
at the end of the season you'll know the reason we are the premier team |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 13 Jan 2003 03:41 PM |
There's no way they would allow a kick in after a goal is scored. Footy already has a lot of games that turn into routs and if you don't bring it back to the center it could get real ugly for a team who has trouble clearing. Plus the ball ups are a great part of the game.
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SOSO
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| Joined: 10 Jun 2002 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 13 Jan 2003 03:59 PM |
Why not give the defending team possesion at the center square with a free kick? That would help keep games from turning into a rout. I agree it would take a great part of the game away but many of the games degenerate into modified scrums until someone finally manages to get control of the ball.
at the end of the season you'll know the reason we are the premier team |
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Seanthar
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 13 Jan 2003 08:23 PM |
If a team was given a free kick every time the opposition scored a goal then they would be only one kick away from a shot on goal. This would encourage flooding to an insane degree. And if it wasnt then there would be a nasy oppertunity for the game to get into a continious loop of kick, mark, goal.
What is with all these rule changing? I dont think rule changing is a bad thing, for instaince i think having wings are a good thing. But whats with all these pushes to add other sports to football?
9 point goals are from Basketball. (wouldnt work because there would be more points than goals scored form it, thus clogging the game up. It als encourages selfishness and not everyone can score a 9 point goal. Everyone can kick a goal, but not everyone could kick 50 meters).
Backwards kicks arepritty much the reverse of a rugby knock-on. That might sound stupid but the results would be having options to the players side and behind them running forwards, as unless there was a turnover they would not be options. Flooding. Plus there is umpire error, which is what we should be trying to take out of the game, not adding.
Having a goal scored regardless of how it went through is a lot like Soccer. In my oppinion: If a kick wasnt good enough to go through without being touched by man or post then it is not good enough to be a goal. In the backline one of the most 'funest' parts of the game for me it to do anything (flick, punch, smother, shield) to stop the ball going through untouched. Plus, you will get a lot of handball goals. I think the tactic would be to kick it to the square then blindly handball a goal. That is a huge alteration, and there would probably be more handball goals than kicked ones. (you can hadball when you are being tackled, you can handball in any direction at any moment, you can handball pritty much instaintly. Kicking is inferior to handballing short distainces).
Why get rid of the lubering sticks? One of the great things about footy is that basically anyone can play no matter their build. (just look at spider Burton. could he play soccer? could brent Harvey play Basketball? Would Tony lockett have been a legend at the 100 meter sprint?). If you take Rucking out of the game then your not playing footy.
just my oppinion anyway.
Who defeats a Dragon? |
Who defeats a Dragon? |
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SOSO
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| Joined: 10 Jun 2002 |
| Total Posts: 115 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 14 Jan 2003 12:11 PM |
So are you saying that a FG or PAT that hits the upright or crossbar and still goes through shouldn't count? What is the big deal about the ball not being touched? If the ball is kicked through what difference does it make? Do you see deflected goals in hockey as "unworthy" as counting as a goal? If not then why the difference in Footy?
at the end of the season you'll know the reason we are the premier team |
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Jimbo
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| Joined: 11 Jun 2002 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 14 Jan 2003 02:40 PM |
Erik, the comparison you're making between Footy and other sports which allow scoring after the ball/puck hits/defelcts off the bar is apples to oranges...I agree with the post saying "if the kick's not good enough to make it past a defender, or go through the posts without hitting anyone/anything its not good enough to be a goal".....This is a feature to footy that separates it from other games...I've played up forward and in the backline, and as a backman, I agree its alot of fun and a very important contributuon to reduce a score by 5 points if I can get a touch to it prior to it crossing the line...and when I'm up forward, it puts added pressure on every kick for goal knowing I've gotta get the ball high enough and on target so it clears the defender and still makes it through the big sticks....in terms of the proposed changes, I like the play-on in 15 seconds rule, but thats about all I'd change for now...
Safety 1st |
You want the truth? You can't handle the truth. |
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SOSO
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| Joined: 10 Jun 2002 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 14 Jan 2003 03:42 PM |
Jimbo,
I know what you are saying but the idea as I understood it was to increase scoring and speed up the play of the game.
at the end of the season you'll know the reason we are the premier team |
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stiegs5
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| Joined: 17 Jun 2002 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 16 Jan 2003 02:14 PM |
I think scoring should remain as it is, however I'm interested in seeing how the backward kick, play on rule would work in a practical sense.
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Matty D.
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 16 Jan 2003 02:27 PM |
The backwards kick rule is even more subjective.
1. At least in the NFL there are sideline judges and hash marks/gridlines to assit in this. There are few reference points an a footy ground.
2. The shape of the field makes this a questionsable decision. Bear with me here, but the with the fields being round/oval it is going to have no real reference point.
If the 50 m arc (and that fact that it is an arc is this theory's problem in the first place) is used, then a kick from one point on the boundary to the top of the arc is still only 50 meters away from goal or maybe even less if it is marked inside the arc, but on a horizontal line with the square then it is a backwards kick. Does that make sense?
We are the Bulldogs,
We are the team.
Edited by - Matty D. on 01/16/2003 14:29:00 |
We are the Bulldogs,
We are the team. |
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stiegs5
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| Joined: 17 Jun 2002 |
| Total Posts: 377 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 16 Jan 2003 06:26 PM |
I'm not saying that the rule should be implemented, personally I'm not really an advocate of much rule change. I just said I'd be interested to see how it would work. I don't think it would be difficult to tell a backward kick from a forward or lateral one. Anyway that would be up to the umpires interpretation, like so many other rules.
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cos789
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| Joined: 06 Jul 2002 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 17 Jan 2003 08:08 AM |
The kicking backwards rule has really got knobs on it.it really goes against the whole notion of no off-side,go anywhere,do anything, that is Australian Football.It is a simple matter for the coaches to enforce their players to MAN UP.AS for speeding up the the kick-in,if the goal umpires carried two different coloured flags that would save time in running back to the posts.More tradition lost-OK.My favourite is having a 15m kick-in box.The FF stands on the line and the FB can kick from anywhere inside .just like being on the mark.It doesn't change the nature of the game ,just easier for the players and umps.The ump doesn't have to watch the FB dragging his foot over the line and the FF has a mark to run to.
give it to the game |
give it to the game |
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SOSO
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| Joined: 10 Jun 2002 |
| Total Posts: 115 |
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Re: Proposed Rule Changes - Wizards Cup
Posted: 17 Jan 2003 03:20 PM |
I really don't see why there would be any opposition to rule changes anyway. Practically everyone here is an advocate of "Metro Footy" which is really nothing but one big rule change.
at the end of the season you'll know the reason we are the premier team |
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